Talk:Oscar the Grouch
John Lovelady John Lovelady built the original Oscar. Was that the orange one, or the original Oscar-as-we-know-him, for the second season? -- Zanimum 21:12, December 12, 2010 (UTC) :That's the very first Oscar (otherwise it wouldn't be the "original Oscar," but the second if better known version). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:47, December 13, 2010 (UTC) :: Okay, so a follow-up: Lovelady made, Henson ripped apart, who made the new one? Has that ever been said? -- Zanimum 12:54, December 13, 2010 (UTC) :::You mean the second orange one, or the green guy we know now? Either way, more than likely, that'd be Don Sahlin. He was mentioned in The Wisdom of Big Bird along with Caroll and Jim in planning a new Oscar puppet after a month into the first season, when Jim tore the original to scrap. It's possible that Don built the second season puppet also, with other designers refurbishing on that year after year. -- Jon (talk) 16:29, December 13, 2010 (UTC) Yellow Oscar VEE Entertainment, a source of much misinformation, says Oscar was yellow in episode 0001 of Sesame Street, orange in the rest of the first season. Is there any reason they'd have come up with this? It's the winning answer to their Facebook trivia a few weeks ago. (This is the same company who recently perpetuated the Bert/Ernie/Wonderful Life myth, and another week awarded someone for calling proto-Elmo "Little Monster".) -- Zanimum 16:39, December 21, 2009 (UTC) : They probably saw a miscolored photo once that made the orange Oscar look yellow. There's no evidence that I know of that there was ever a yellow puppet built. —Scott (talk) 17:14, December 21, 2009 (UTC) :: Thanks, I presumed it would have been mentioned on wiki if he had ever been yellow. -- Zanimum 18:36, December 21, 2009 (UTC) New Picture You guys like the picture that I just uploaded? -- T.J. (talk) 15:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC) : I like it! Natonstan 15:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC) ::I prefer the other image that was originally in its place. It's much brighter and in better quality than this one, and the new image has a personal autograph scrawled at the bottom. But I do like your new picture; it's a classic image of Oscar scowling, and it fits in with the rest of the images in the article. Maybe later I could brighten it up a bit and format it a little differently, without the autograph. -- MuppetDude 15:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC) :::We shouldn't have autographed pictures for character pages. —Scott (talk) 16:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC) ::::I tried editing the new image, but it becomes awkward to look at after deleting the autograph. Unless someone has a text-free version, I don't think we can use it. -- MuppetDude 16:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC) :::::Sorry! I didn't even noticed that it was autographed! I'll find a better one! I just wanted the main picture to be one that has Oscar in his trash can with the lid. -- T.J. (talk) 16:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC) Alternate performers It says here in the article that "When Big Bird and Oscar (both performed by Caroll Spinney) are required in a scene together, Jim Martin or Matt Vogel will operate Oscar." What's the source on that? According to Vogel's interview on ToughPigs, he hasn't done Oscar. Plus I'm sure that over the past 40 years there have been several puppeteers who have filled in for Spinney's Oscaring duties when the Bird and Grouch appear in the same scene. Vogel and Martin weren't even around for the first 25+ years of the show. There hasn't been any cases of alternate voices (Spinney has always looped the lines) so is it really pertinent for us to even track the alternate puppeteers (we don't note the people who fill in for Steve Whitmire when Kermit and Rizzo are in a scene together). Unless the fact is well-sourced and it's a fairly consistent alternate puppeteer (like Kevin Clash doing Frank Oz's puppeteering in Muppet Treasure Island), I don't think it's worth including. Thoughts? -- Brad D. (talk) 02:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC) :I agree with all your points. I've heard through the grapevine over the years that Jim Martin is recurring go-to guy for Oscar. But even if it was citable, you're right, we don't track the same for who does Piggy when she and Fozzie are in a scene together either. —Scott (talk) 02:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC) ::The bio on Caroll Spinney in Sesame Street Unpaved mentions that Jim Martin usually performs Oscar when the two characters are in a scene together. It's been a long time since I last checked, but I think Jim Martin's official website also mentions that he performs Oscar when the two appear together. --Minor muppetz 03:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC) :::Martin is well-sourced, just not on the page. And we do track the info, but usually on the performer page and only when it's long-term or otherwise notable (as with Frank Oz doing the Swedish Chef's hands, or when Kevin Clash filled in for Oz as Piggy or Animal). The Oscar info's on Jim Martin's page (and if we need a citation apart from the book and Martin's website, there's a few articles which mention it and which I've saved the text of). No source that I can find right now for Matt Vogel, but either way, I agree it's not info we include on the character pages *unless* they also supplied the voice in the final product at some point, and that doesn't appear to apply here. So yeah, take it out. From all evidence, the Vogel thing is actually one of those long-term fan rumors that just won't die (i.e. "he fills on as Big Bird so he must also do so for Oscar.") -- Andrew Leal (talk) 04:36, 11 October 2008 (UTC) ::::Okay, I took Vogel out and sourced the Martin note. —Scott (talk) 20:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC) True, or extrapolation on fact : Early in the planning of the street sequences, the CTW had proposed a stylized 'clean' street; folksinger Oscar Brand was on the advisory panel and strongly objected, insisting that every inner-city street must have some garbage strewn about and that a cleaned up sanitized Sesame Street would alienate the children the show was designed to reach. After a long debate, the CTW gave in to Brand's arguments, urbanized the street set with graffiti and litter, and then retaliated by adding the garbage heap behind 123 Sesame Street and including a garbage can home to a crabby monster named Oscar The Grouch. This passage was added to the Wikipedia article on Sesame Street. This folksinger's official page does agree he was an early adviser to the show, but I thought it was either Gibbon/Stone/Connell/Cooney that had decide on the look. -- Zanimum 14:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC) :::As Oscar Brand's daughter, I can assure you that the story is true! Dad wanted authentic looking streets to appeal to the kids who could not relate to a clean street and white bread America. He was adament in his opinion and the grouchy muppet in the garbage can was the result. It is family legend. Dad is still writing and fighting the good fight, at 89 years young. He is less grouchy though and we love him dearly.-- jeannierose Nov.2nd 2009 :I don't think it's true. There are a lot of different sources that state that Oscar's name comes from a restaurant called Oscar's Tavern, and the character was inspired by a mean waiter who often served Jim Henson and some other people who worked on the show. --Minor muppetz 15:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC) Changing Colors I notice the article says the original orange Oscar "got ripped up after the first season". How did this happen? Was it intentional, accidental, the work of a vandal, etc? This makes me very curious... Lycanthrope777 05:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC) :: I found a citation for this. It's in The Wisdom of Big Bird, chapter 9. Caroll Spinney states that Jim Henson started ripping Oscar apart to reuse the material. Caroll suggested they "keep the eyebrows", and that to this day, Oscar still has the eyebrows from the original orange Oscar. This is followed by a cute little story about one of Oscar's first appearance as a green Grouch. Should any of this be added? --Gribbaziggy 02:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC) What's in Oscar's trash can? I love the lists of things and people that have been in Oscar's trash can -- but the lists that were on this page were copied from Wikipedia, which isn't necessarily the best source for stuff like this. We are! So I think we should try to recreate those lists based on sourced information. Please feel free to build those lists back up, with an episode or book reference for each item. -- Danny (talk) 17:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC) :Well, the swimming pool is definitely confirmed! We already have visual reference on Filthomena, and this passage from the Grouchland presskit: "Oscar's made jokes about his swimming pool, and we hear about elephants and all sorts of things in this impossibly small trash can. So now, for the first time, you get to see what's in that can." Andrew Leal (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC) ::Actually, if we do recreate the list, should it go in Oscar's Trash Can? Like Big Bird's Nest, that page is pretty puny right now, even more so. Andrew Leal (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC) :::Yeah, that's a good idea. You want to move it all over there? -- Danny (talk) 17:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC) ::::Yeah that does sound like a good idea. And also about the swimming pool, in episode 3122 when Super Nanny arrives Oscar mentions that the sofa is "in the swimming pool." And I also agree with Danny's point about us being the best source for what's in Oscar's trash can, not Wikipedia. And maybe it should go in "Oscar's Trash Can". It's 1 redirection we don't have to think about. But where exactly could we move all the stuff too? -- T.J. (talk) 18:09, February 7 2009 (UTC) Hervé Villechaize I noticed that there's no info on Hervé Villechaize here. How do you think it would be best to credit him? Perhaps in the performer box? -- JParanoid 01:28, 26 January 2006 (UTC) :Wait. Wha? -- Danny Toughpigs 01:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC) ::As stated in Caroll Spinney's book The Wisdom of Big Bird, none other than Herve "Tattoo" Villechaize was a supplementary Sesame Street performer for a time in the 1970s! Basically, for those weird scenes where Oscar had to walk, and all you saw was the trash can with green furry legs sticking out of it, that was Herve performing. This finally ended when Bruno the Trashman was added. Considering the limited and unique nature of the contribution, I'd say it would be better listed within the article itself. (And I haven't messed with it myself yet because I can't find my bally copy of the book, and the academic within me wants to add page number or at least quote some of Carroll's comments about that aspect of the Grouch). Andrew, Aleal 01:54, 26 January 2006 (UTC) :::Oh, I forgot about that, how funny. Does he have a Celebrities page yet? We should add that. So, yeah, the performer box is just for main performers. Herve should go in the body of the article -- it's really more a Trivia note than anything else. You could also make a Casting History thing at the bottom, like there is on the Janice page. -- Danny Toughpigs 02:02, 26 January 2006 (UTC) ::::I would like to point out that Oscar walking with his legs sticking out of the bottom of the trash can did not end with the introduction of Bruno. Bruno was introduced in 1978, and I recall seeing Oscar move with his legs out of the can many times, and I was born in 1984. Also, Oscar moved with his legs out of his can in the 1983 special Don't Eat the Pictures, and as far as I know Oscar always walks while still being inside his can in Sesame Street Live, the first performance of which was in 1980 or 1981. Bruno was not included in Don't Eat the Pictures or any Sesame Street Live show. --Minor muppetz 15:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC) :::::Has anybody been able to find other names of performers who did Oscar's legs, besides Herve Villechaize? -- Ken (talk) 07:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::I haven't seen anything about any alternate "Oscar's legs" performers. I definitely would've said something by now if I did! And if I do I'll keep you guys posted! -- T.J. (talk) 14:52, 3 April 2009 (UTC) The Muppet Movie Oscar is said to have made an appearance in The Muppet Movie. Is that known as a fact. I've literally looked in that huge group of Muppets over and over again but I just don't see him anywhere. So did he appear in that movie? -- King Scar (Be Prepared!!) 16:23, May 13, 2011 (UTC)